Is Todd Murner teaching heresy?

Contra Haereses

A heretic is anyone that offers a counter argument to orthodox teaching. "Orthodox," from the Greek, simply means "correct" [ortho-] "way" [-dox]). And while the statement that "Todd is a heretic" is a strong one to make, there will be no question by the end of this article that Todd teaches doctrines that lie far outside orthodox Christianity.

And what is most frustrating about Todd's ministry is that he refuses to document, in writing, the doctrines he teaches. You must literally listen through (conservatively) scores of hours of Todd speaking about hundreds of unrelated topics to discover his core values and beliefs. And don't be surprised to hear many contradicting statements! I have sat through those countless hours of services and can say without doubt that the following statement is true:

Todd not only rejects key tenants of historical orthodox Christianity, but that he adds several false doctrines as well.

What is Orthodox Christianity?

Below is a list of fundamental doctrines that are true for all Christians. While Catholicism and Protestantism vary on a few points, neither would reject this list. These values or doctrines are at the very core of what it is to be a Christian. If you do not know what some of these values really mean, I recommend taking some time to look them up and learn about them. This will only serve to enrich your understanding about your faith.

The Tenants of Historical Orthodox Christianity

• Deity of Christ


• Doctrine of the Trinity


• The Sovereignty of God


• The historicity of the physical death, burial, and resurrection of Christ


• Hypostatic union (Christ is fully God and fully man)


• The sinfulness of man


• The necessity of the atonement


• Salvation by grace through faith


• The reality of the body of Christ (the catholic [universal] Church)


• The authority of the visible body of Christ


• The inspiration of Scripture


• The canon of Scripture made up of the Old and New Testaments


• The future second coming

These are fairly straightforward. Most Christians are raised with at least a cursory understanding of these topics.

A key concept to understand at this point is that there are many doctrines not covered by this list. Doctrines of laying on of hands, tongues, prophecy, and many more are very important doctrines, but not essential to Christianity.

What Todd rejects of Orthodox Christian Doctrines

After having sat through four years of services, I can say that Todd rejects the following tenants:

• Hypostatic union (Christ is fully God and fully man)


• Salvation by grace through faith


• The reality of the body of Christ (the catholic [universal] Church)


• The authority of the visible body of Christ


• The inspiration of Scripture


• The future second coming

I will provide examples of each and why I believe these heretical views are Todd's rejection of the Orthodox Christianity.

Todd Rejects the Hypostatic Union of Christ

This important doctrine reaffirms the doctrine of the Trinity, is in line with many prophecies, and is vital to Jesus Christ being the only sacrifice capable of reconciling us to God the Father. Without question, to deny that Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man is to drive a serious wedge into the core beliefs of Christianity.

Todd often spoke that it did not matter if Jesus was born as God. When Jesus was baptized, he received the Holy Spirit and that is all that matters. Before Jesus received Holy Spirit, Todd taught that it did not really matter who Jesus was or did. In fact, while I cannot recall if spoken from the pulpit, Todd and his leadership spoke and taught that it was not a stretch to think that Jesus could have sinned.

This clearly denies that Jesus could be fully God and man, for how could God sin? Beyond the sin issue, the purpose of denying that Jesus was fully God and man was for a specific purpose: the context of this false teaching was centered around an argument for the importance of "receiving the Spirit." When Jesus was baptized He then became God's Son according to the teaching of the Rock. Prior to His baptism, it didn't matter...

Todd Rejects that Salvation is by Faith through Grace

Todd teaches that getting saved is not just to be reconciled to God through the redeeming work of Christ Jesus. Rather, salvation is a "process" by which we all must discover our purpose on earth. It is no surprise that this purpose can only be discovered fully if one is "lined up" with an apostle.

Todd rejects the idea that what Christ accomplished on the cross was a complete work. Rather, this only enables us to start the process of salvation. The end result of "salvation" is that heaven and earth come together as one in your life. This is a clear departure from the orthodox view that by grace through faith in Christ alone is all that is required for reconciliation to God. To Todd, Christ's work is the beginning and Todd's work is what completes us.

Todd Rejects the Reality of the Body of Christ

This point is one that is made by implication. It is unfortunate that Todd has rejected the importance of education. The result is that he is unaware of a number of key arguments Paul makes about the role of the apostles in the early church. I will develop this argument more fully in a separate article, but suffice it to say, the apostles (11 disciples + Matthias + Paul) had the specific purpose of establishing the church, or body of Christ. These men succeeded! Without question, the body of Christ is alive and well in the earth today.

The argument follows then that there is no need for apostles:

If the church exists, then there is no need for apostles.

If there is a need for apostles, then the church does not exist. [Contrapositive]

This argument basically states that since we have the body of Christ, there is not a need for the title of an apostle. The "foundation of the apostles and prophets" has been firmly laid...2000 years ago! As an important note, there is no historical record that indicates that the early church ever embraced any other individuals as apostles other than these 13 men.

I want to take the opportunity to make a distinction between what I might call an 'apostolic role' of individuals sent to plant churches. This is certainly important, I believe it can be scripturally supported.

But what Todd claims to be is one of the original apostles. He claims the same authority, title, office, function, and power. Therefore, by implication, Todd rejects the reality of the body of Christ.

Todd Rejects the Authority of the Visible Body of Christ

This point extends from the previous point, but is further exemplified in Todd's derision of the local church. Todd often referred to other local ministers by name and why they were not "kingdom" ministers. It was not uncommon to hear Todd deride the Baptist church, specifically. In fact, Todd has made it known that he believes the local churches should submit to his "apostolic authority" and even stated that tithes should be submitted to him from these churches! Incredible statements, in my opinion.

How does this relate to Todd rejecting the authority of the church? First, as discussed earlier, he rejects the church even exists. Second, Todd claims the authority of the church (which, evidently, does not exist) should be his own. This removes the authority from the local and universal body and places it squarely in Todd's hands.

Todd Rejects the Inspiration of the Scriptures

In 2005, Todd Murner began teaching that the scriptures were not necessary for Christians today. If the Holy Spirit is in you, he argued, then you do not need an external (preceding) Word of God. Todd taught that we all have a "proceeding word" that comes from the Holy Spirit, and this trumps scriptures. Todd openly encouraged setting aside reading of the Bible.

As an update, Todd has recently, apparently, expressed remorse for this doctrine. But no signs of active encouragement to learn the scriptures can be heard or seen. We have not been able to find a pattern of Todd actually reversing this teaching through active practice. So, while there might be some hope, the reality of his repentance has yet to be realized.

Todd Rejects the Second Coming of Christ

Todd teaches at the Rock that scriptures such as "Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Col. 1:26-27), as an example, indicates that the second coming has already being realized. Heaven and earth coming together as one is a process that is taking place through "sons" (submitted to apostles). Todd openly states that the rapture is not going to happen. Rather, one day, we will realize that the "sons of glory" are in positions of material power and can usher in the kingdom of heaven.

Todd Makes New Doctrines Essential for Salvation

Todd has added several doctrines to the gospel message:

• Tongues are ultimately a requirement


• Submission to Todd's authority


• Tithing

Tongues are required for salvation

The first thing that most people will notice is Todd's requirement of tongues. This is only slowly introduced, but in discussions and from the pulpit, Todd has openly stated that if you cannot speak in tongues, then you have not received the Holy Spirit and are not saved.

Submission to apostles for salvation

Todd has also introduced the idea that you must line up with apostolic authority (as expressed through a father of a household or himself as an apostle) if you want to know your purpose in life. And our purpose is part of our salvation process. Therefore, salvation is ultimately connected to this submission to Todd as an apostle.

Tithing a requirement for salvation

Finally, tithing is a requirement. Todd has publicly stated through a story he repeats that if asked what percent of Christians tithe, "100%" is his response. Besides the fact that Todd teaches tithing as part of the salvation process, he has added his own requirement to his "sons" that they tithe more than 10% if they are "real sons." Keep in mind, to reject the apostle's word is to potentially lose your ability to know your purpose in life. So, here again, Todd is connecting his doctrines to salvation through himself.

In conclusion...

Todd refuses to write down his "revelation." Until then, only his spoken word from the pulpit can be cited as his beliefs. And Todd controls who can get access to this word by limiting who can download his messages or receive his CDs. Clearly, accountability is not what Todd is after.

What I have heard is a consistent theme of uneducated ideas released without the due diligence expected of a man in Todd's leadership position. While I am sure his intentions are good, the result of this lack of diligence has lead to a series of false teaching and doctrines of demons; nothing short of terrible heresy.